Rubicon effect priority

[Magilvia]

I don't know if this information is already been posted or available in some other way but I thought it could be interesting and useful. I have determined in which order each effect is applied during each turn, whenever possible.
First an important assumption: each barrel can't be moved more than one time per turn (or it will travel 2 squares in a single turn). This is important to find out in which order works dozer and conveyors.

This is the order:
1   - Door key
2   - Furnace
3/4   - Gravity / Downward Copier
5   - Upward pipe
6/7   - Downward winch / Downward pipe
8/9   - Upward Copier / Upward winch
A   - Rightward Dozer
B/C   - Leftward Dozer / Leftward Conveyor
D   - Rightward Conveyor
E   - Gate
F   - Packer / Unpacker (work only if both elements where in place at the start of the current turn)

To find this out I have designed a series of tests where each effect is opposed to the next to prove it is applied first, for example furnace burns barrels before gravity is applied moving them out of reach.
When two effect are similar and can't be opposed it's impossible to find out which one comes first. This is the case of 3/4, 6/7, 8/9 and B/C
Here are the tests: legefoc

Comments welcome 

[Bucky]

I don't know if this information is already been posted or available in some other way but I thought it could be interesting and useful. I have determined in which order each effect is applied during each turn, whenever possible.
First an important assumption: each barrel can't be moved more than one time per turn (or it will travel 2 squares in a single turn). This is important to find out in which order works dozer and conveyors.

This is the order:
1   - Door key
2   - Furnace
3/4   - Gravity / Downward Copier
5   - Upward pipe
6/7   - Downward winch / Downward pipe
8/9   - Upward Copier / Upward winch
A   - Rightward Dozer
B/C   - Leftward Dozer / Leftward Conveyor
D   - Rightward Conveyor
E   - Gate
F   - Packer / Unpacker (work only if both elements where in place at the start of the current turn)

To find this out I have designed a series of tests where each effect is opposed to the next to prove it is applied first, for example furnace burns barrels before gravity is applied moving them out of reach.
When two effect are similar and can't be opposed it's impossible to find out which one comes first. This is the case of 3/4, 6/7, 8/9 and B/C
Here are the tests: legefoc

Comments welcome 

YWith fast copiers, it is possible for more than one upward copier to take effect with a fast add in between. (see vakomid)

[sluutthefeared]

To find this out I have designed a series of tests where each effect is opposed to the next to prove it is applied first, for example furnace burns barrels before gravity is applied moving them out of reach.

In a lot of cases it depends not only on the parts but the positions as well. Your furnace key example works differently if the furnace is moved 1 block above the key rather than 1 block below.

[Magilvia]

YWith fast copiers, it is possible for more than one upward copier to take effect with a fast add in between

No that's because of the old physic model which was changed exactly for this reason IMO.

In a lot of cases it depends not only on the parts but the positions as well. Your furnace key example works differently if the furnace is moved 1 block above the key rather than 1 block below.

This is rather interesting. I suppose it's an exception, but you speak of "a lot of cases". Could you find some more?

[sluutthefeared]

Hard to think of many off the top of my head, but it's often hard to clearly say which part has priority over another.
You have the downward copier as having higher priority than the upward copier. I'm not sure that's correct. pasotyp
Or the downward copier having priority over the upward pipe. dydydox

For some of those you might need a bit more to show that they truly are of a higher priority. Like the upward/downward pipe, in your example it could be just that the upward pipe comes first so it gets priority, so you would need an extra example to show the reverse, something like this: nudynub

[Rene]

I have been analysing before as well, but got confused because retrieval from a space seemed to have different priority order than delivery to a space. After a while scratching my head, I dropped the subject. Now I looked into it again, and I think I have a partial solution.

See fumibeb, especially the striped box in the middle. In that box, you can clearly see that gravity pulls away a barrel from below an up-pipe, but the up-pipe deliveres a barrel to the top before gravity can drop one there.

My current conclusion is that the components come in different categories that are processed in a few phases. Components that are in a higher category always act before those in a lower category, but within one category there is a bottom-to-top, left-to-right evaluation order.

You can see this with dozers and conveyers. They are all in the same category. When two dozers try to push a barrel into the same space, then the one that is most bottom-left wins. It is most clear when one of the dozers pushes the barrels up-hill. Compare, e.g., the top-left picture in fumibeb, with the picture third from the top. The right-dozer wins in one picture, but the left-dozer wins in the other. But in both cases the bottom-left one is the winner.

For conveyers, the same is true (see pictures 8, 9, and 10 from the top). In all cases it is the bottom-left most conveyer that goes first. If most cases, however, the conveyer that goes second pushes the first barrel back again, and therefore seems to be the one that wins. Picture 10 shows what happens: the bottom-right conveyer pushes two barrels up-hill first, then the top-left conveyer pushes them back.

Also, gravity, down-pipes, copiers, etc, are in the same category. Gravity pulls away a barrel from below a up-copier before it is copied, but an up-copier delivers a barrel to its top before gravity can deliver one there. Clearly the bottom most component acts first.

This theory does not explain everything, however. The striped box shows what the problem is. Up-pipes have the same relationship with gravity as the other components, and therefore must be in the same category. However, the up-pipe is faster than a down-pipe, and snaps away a barrel before the down-pipe can get - even though the down-pipe is lower than the up-pipe.

So, here is my category list (in order of priority):

Door
Furnace
Copier down / Copier up / Pipe up / Pipe down / Winch up / Winch down / Gravity
Dozers / Conveyers
Gate / Packer / Unpacker

Probably only Kevan knows how it really works.....

[Magilvia]

For some of those you might need a bit more to show that they truly are of a higher priority. Like the upward/downward pipe, in your example it could be just that the upward pipe comes first so it gets priority, so you would need an extra example to show the reverse, something like this: nudynub

My assumption was that every effect takes place one time per turn in a specific order and independently of reciprocal position. If that would be true my test series would be necessary and sufficient, but it's not so. This leaves us with the necessity to try each effect with every other in every possible position. It's too much and in fact it hurts my sense of elegance  

[sluutthefeared]

but within one category there is a bottom-to-top, left-to-right evaluation order

I always thought it was top to bottom, left to right.
This for example: dosikub

In the first one, the key is on top and triggers before the furnace below can burn it.
In the second, the furnace above burns the barrel before the key below can trigger.

[Magilvia]

You can see this with dozers and conveyers. They are all in the same category. When two dozers try to push a barrel into the same space, then the one that is most bottom-left wins. It is most clear when one of the dozers pushes the barrels up-hill. Compare, e.g., the top-left picture in fumibeb, with the picture third from the top. The right-dozer wins in one picture, but the left-dozer wins in the other. But in both cases the bottom-left one is the winner.

For conveyers, the same is true (see pictures 8, 9, and 10 from the top). In all cases it is the bottom-left most conveyer that goes first. If most cases, however, the conveyer that goes second pushes the first barrel back again, and therefore seems to be the one that wins. Picture 10 shows what happens: the bottom-right conveyer pushes two barrels up-hill first, then the top-left conveyer pushes them back.

From this two examples it seems that a barrel COULD be moved more than one time per turn. So let's forget even my first assumption.

but within one category there is a bottom-to-top, left-to-right evaluation order

I always thought it was top to bottom, left to right.

It's much more complicated than I first thought.
This one is also interesting: benilyd

[Rene]

but within one category there is a bottom-to-top, left-to-right evaluation order

I always thought it was top to bottom, left to right.
This for example: dosikub

In the first one, the key is on top and triggers before the furnace below can burn it.
In the second, the furnace above burns the barrel before the key below can trigger.

Maybe nature is more complex than man can imagine....

Here is another nice example: mohycet. Try to figure out what will happen before you run it. Then try to explain what really happens....

[Rene]

From this two examples it seems that a barrel COULD be moved more than one time per turn. So let's forget even my first assumption.

You may be right after all, Magilvia. There seems to be such a rule, otherwise I cannot explain oscillating barrel behaviour (a barrel oscillating between two conveyers).

EDIT: see my "Rubicon laws of physics" post in the "Design discussion" category